Wappen Augsburg 1730

[labarbedor]

Guten Tag,
Dieses Wappen befindet sich auf einem sehr großen Löffel 37 cm. von Augsburg c. 1730

Hier Verbindungen zu Bilder vom Wappen:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/labarbe ... 3.jpg.html

Vielen Dank,

[labarbedor]

Guten Tag
Ich hatte gehofft, jemand würde dieses Wappen auf Deutsch zu beschreiben. Es sollte offensichtlich sein, dass Deutsch nicht meine Muttersprache ist, nicht einmal meine fünfte.



Vielen Dank
Maurice

[labarbedor]

Hi,
Perhaps my German is worse than I thought. Could anyone please tell me how to describe this wappen in German? I was hoping to try a goole search on occasion and all I know is Schlüssel & Löwe I don't know how to describe the bend or colors.
Thanks,
Maurice

[wrangler]

Einfach die Urlaubszeit abwarten! Das Wappen müßte zu identifizieren sein, mir kommt es bekannt vor!
Ich weiß nur nicht in welchen Wappenbuch ich es gesehen habe!

[labarbedor]

HI
Thanks, I can wait, but the anticipation might kill me. I am so interested because the spoon is so unusual and deserves identification.
Many thanks,
Maurice

[chj]

Hi,
Perhaps my German is worse than I thought. Could anyone please tell me how to describe this wappen in German? I was hoping to try a goole search on occasion and all I know is Schlüssel & Löwe I don't know how to describe the bend or colors.
Thanks,
Maurice

Hi,
unfortunately the golden bend is the only part you can be sure of. Other tinctures are not mentioned.
Could be a bend on red, green, blue or black or the bend divides 2 of the mentioned colours, which multiplies possible designs.

[labarbedor]

To bring this up to date. The wappen must be of someone close to Augsburg. Not just because the spoon was made in Augsburg, but because on the opposite side of the handle there is a medallion of Caesar Augustus. Augsburg was named after Augustus, so the spoon was a signal of civic pride. So the owner also probably came from Augsburg, or why have the bust of Augustus on it.

[Joachim v. Roy]

Einem „a d e l i g e n Augsburger Patriziergeschlecht“ bzw. einem „e r b a r e n Augsburger Geschlecht“ dürfte das in Rede stehende Wappen n i c h t gehört haben (vgl. Siebmacher 1605, Tafeln 207
[ http://www.wappenbuch.de/pages/wappen_2 ... macher.htm ], 208, 214, 215, 216, 217).

Da die berühmten Augsburger Gold- und Silberschmiede ihre Erzeugnisse w e l t w e i t exportierten,
so könnte das fragliche Wappen selbst außerdeutscher Provenienz sein.

MfG

[labarbedor]

I am sorry to be writing in English, but while I can read German, I cannot write it.
I used to contribute to a site that demands English, and a friend of mine who is German is forced to write in English, which he cannot do, and they loose much by not letting him post in German and let others use a translator.
In any case, I couldn't get your link to work. But I did go through Siebmachers Wappenbuch. And could not find the wappen.
I do not know or understand heraldry, but I do know silver, I have collected for over 40 years. Normally the first owner of a piece of silver in the 17th, or 18th century lived in or near the place where it was first sold. There were of course exceptions, and the distance was affected by the means of transportation, so rivers were often more useful than highways. But the point I tried to make is that this piece was very likely owned by someone who was interested in, and lived in or near Augsburg. The medallion of Augustus is quite rare in Augsburg silver. While coin-like medallions were very common especially 1720-35, and larger worked medallions were quite common too, ones that are of Augustus are quite rare. Augsburg was of course named after Caesar Augustus, so in a sense this spoon was a symbol of civic pride for a citizen of Augsburg. Anyone walking past the Augustusbrunnen would know the history. Of course one could argue that the spoon was bought as a souvenir of Augsburg, but it seems more likely that it was really saying something like " I am proud to be a citizen of Augsburg". Which of us is right will demand that someone settles the question by discovering whose wappen it is.
Thanks,
Maurice

[Frank Martinoff]

... leider nur "beinahe"
... sadly only "almost" ....

http://www.vorarlberg.at/vorarlberg/bil ... r_nayr.htm

[labarbedor]

Hi,
We say that close only counts in hand grenades . But I do appreciate the effort. Thanks.
I have had many Wappen I could not figure out, less after your help, and the help of others on this site.
I don't know why, but I find this one so frustrating. I guess because it is so simple and to me it seems so right, and yet I can not find it.
The piece deserves an identified wappen.

Many thanks,
Maurice

[labarbedor]

HI,
I apologize for writing in English but my ability to write in German is very limited.

I may have made a very serious mistake after reading the previous posting. Having had no luck I did a bit of research on the Wappen showed for Nayer of Montafon.
Evidently Felix Nayer was given the arms in 1601. He was the Bergwerksverwalter in Montafon, which is about 250 km from Augsburg. Which is not close, but during this period Augsburg was a major producer of silver flatware, spoons etc.
I then looked at other wappen from this area and found this one:
https://www.vorarlberg.at/vorarlberg/bi ... keller.htm
The lion is holding a key, but again the Crown in the crest is missing.
I always thought that the Wappen had to be exactly right or it wasn't right at all.
I then found an article that gave some information about Montafon in 1645 evidently the Nayers and Kellers were both prominent families. Also a Felix Nayer (perhaps not the same Felix Nayer) was married to a Zum Keller.
So my question is this: Could the wappen be some kind of mixture of the two families? Is there any information on line that might help this theory. If it can be traced to a descendant of Felix it would seem very appropriate as the mines in Montafon include silver mines.
Best regards,
Maurice

[Joachim v. Roy]

Ich kann mir n i c h t vorstellen, daß das in seinem Aufbau einfache und übersichtliche Wappen
eine Kombination ("mixture") von 2 verschiedenen Familienwappen darstellen soll.

Freundliche Grüße vom Rhein

[zobelrolf]

hallo laberbedor,
there exist a lot of dayfly coat of arms, but most probably the hint of martinoff hits the truth, it's the same clan.
zobelrolf

[labarbedor]

I should say I can read German, so answers are best in German.
I think the Nayer Keller link explains the Lion holding the Key, The double line of the bend or slanted field might just be to make it stand out on the silver. But what I don't understand is changing the field from Silver to Gold.
I also can't find any of the referenced places to find the examples of the Wappen. Does anyone know if any of these changes are shown in a WappenBuch, that I could find on line.
Maurice