Wappen der Familie SCHATZEN (SCHACZEN)

[MichaelSchatz]

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herrn und Mitgleider,
in Siebmacher's Wappenbuch 1701 ist ein wappen für mein Familie SCHACZEN. Band II, S. 160. Nürnbergische Ehrbare Geschlechtes. Wo finde ich weitere Informationen und eine Herkunft für dieses Wappen? Welche Informationen liegen der künstlerischen Darstellung? Vielen Dank für Ihre Hilfe. MfG. MICHAEL

http://www.wappenbuch.com/imagesB/B160.jpg

Englisch:
Ladies and Gentlemen and Members:
in Siebmachers Wappenbuch 1701 is a wappen for my Family SCHACZEN. Volume II, Folio 160, Nürnbergisches Ehrbare Geschlechtes. Where would I find more information and a description for this wappen? What information does the artistry depict? Thank you for your help. Sincerely,
MICHAEL

[Barolo1644]

Das Wappen gehört zu Ihrer Familie?

Was macht Sie so sicher?

[Markus]

Sorry, falscher Fehler! Eintrag gelöscht!

[MichaelSchatz]

Hallo Barolo 1644,

Die Familiennamen SCHATZ ich auf dieser Website ist ein falscher Name. Aber, mein UrurGroßvater kam hier nach Kanada im Jahre 1864 als Herr SCHATZEN (Englisch CHATSON). Sein Geburtsort --Tennstedt, Kreis Langensalza, Preußen in Jahre 1834. (heute Bad Tennstedt). Es ist eine äußerst seltene Nachnamen. Die Familie waren Adel. Ich Frage, dass diese Hypothese zutrifft. Siebmachers Referenzen dieses Wappen als Schatzen und Schaczen. Ich bin mir bewusst, dass Nürnberg ist Ferngespräche aus Bad Tennstedt, aber es ist sehr wahrscheinlich, dass dies meine familie's Wappen. Ich bin 80% sicher.
Michael
Ich entschuldige mich für die Google-Übersetzung Maschine.

[Barolo1644]

It´s not enogh that you are sure 80 %.

You have to proof it

[V. Wiegand]

You wrote to me that we have the same wappen but the one you show here is not the one my family has it just has some similarities but its not the same.
The colors in our wappen are red and gold I have a colored picture but its too small so you can't see it properly but I'm sure its not the same as yours.

Sincerly
Viktoria

[MichaelSchatz]

Hallo,
vielen danke für Ihre Antworten. Ich kann auf Englisch erklären.
Dear Viktoria, I have already sent you a personal message. I do not concentrate on the Wiegand coat of arms as the Wiegand Family was step father (stiefvater) to my GG Grandfather. Thanks for your reply.

Dear Bartolo, I agree, there must be 100% proof to make this conclusion. That is the reason why I ask my original questions to help get direction to prove the other 20% You also do not have the entire story as to my genealogy research which I will now describe.
My GG Grandfather was born unehelichen in 1834 in Tennstedt, Kreis Langensalza, Province of Saxony, Prussia. He was baptized Friedrich Wilhelm with his mother's maiden name- BECHERER. The two male witnesses to the baptism were officers of the 2 Kompanie, Feldartillerie, Prince Luitpold Regent von Bayern (4. Magdeburgisches) . I believe they acted on behalf of a superior officer named SCHATZEN who was the natural father to the child. I have wrote a letter to the Militär Bundesarchiv to seek information on an officer named SCHATZEN in the "Rang und Quartiers Liste Koniglich Preussisch Armee" directories. I await their reply.
For 30 years the child FW BECHERER lived somewhere within Prussia but changed his name to Frank SCHATZEN. It is a rare, uncommon surname. Only Siebmacher has it listed in his book. I believe FW Becherer adopted it from his natural father. The army regiment Prince Luitpold Regent von Bayern 4. Magdeburgisches relates only in a small way to this wappen being from a "respectable Nürnberg family", Nürnberg being in Bayern, correct?
Perhaps some kind person can help or direct me with my original questions above. What does one interpret the drawing to be? Is there a provenance for this particular wappen? Where do I search next?
This is part of the 20% I require to correlate to military records and make a final conclusion if this wappen belongs to my family or not.
Thank you.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen.

[Barolo1644]

as he was born "unehelich" he also lost the right on the coat of arms
(the traditionals see it like that)

and in this case will be impossible to proof who was really his father

[Frank Martinoff]

Except if he was later officially accepted/adopted etc.
Since the name was changed to Schatzen
this "should" or "might" be the case here!

At this point it is wrong to assume anything,
and what's wrong with looking for his true ancestors,
this is everybody's god given right!

I don't think that Michael will tattoo the CoA
on his forehead, and if his ancestor was officially accepted
.......has all the right to do so!

The worst scenario would be, that it will go
into the family album!

[Barolo1644]

Even if you will find out, how Mr. Martinoff fully right said, if he was later adopted or accedpted you will have to find out if this coat of arms belongs really to your family ...

[MichaelSchatz]

I do agree with all your comments. I am more interested (and I believe I have a chance with the military records) in finding the natural father of my GG Grandfather. IF the surname SCHATZEN appears in this particular regiment at the specific time (1833/1834) then it may also be possible to PROVE heredity IF I can find a descendant who is willing to do DNA testing. Nothing is impossible with today's science. This is all conjecture, I know. IN THE MEANTIME, I have found this coat of arms and, AT THIS POINT IN MY RESEARCH all I wish to do is find an expert who can tell me
a. what the drawing means (interpretations welcome)
b. would there be a description/provenance for this particular coat of arms, somewhere?
c. where could I write to research this coat of arms in particular? (Stadtarchiv Nürnberg would be a strong possibility).
My good German genes tell me to persevere and not give up

[Friedhard Pfeiffer]

Das auch im Neuen Siebmacher, Band Bayern Abgestorbene 1. Teil, Seite 123, Tafel 127, veröffentlichte Wappen Schatz - Von Silber und Rot schräglinks geteilt, oben eine rote ledige Vierung. Helm: Rotbekleideter gekrönter Mannesrumpf mit Zopf. Decken: Rot-silber - hat folgende Anmerkung:
Altes Geschlecht der Reichsstadt Nürnberg. Ulman Stromer führt als Zeitgenossen (ca. 1400) an: "Herr Haynreich Schatz tumherr, Hans Schatz, Hermann Schatz, Cunrat Schatz, Wentzlab Schatz, tumprobst zu Regenpurg, Ulreich Schatz, Sebot dez Schatz sun."
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Friedhard Pfeiffer

[Siegler]

Hi Michael,

first of all to your questions:

a) there are no general interpretations of a crest. Sometimes it's easy and you can see the familyname as a picture in the crest, e.g Mr Miller has a Mill in his crest (talking crest). In any other cases only the founder of the crest can tell you what his interpretation was.
b) was answered by Friedhard Pfeiffer
c)

I would try to focus on a classical ancestry research. You can use the crest as a crosscheck later on, but you should start to find the father of your GG-father. I'm sure you will not find many people doing a DNA test for you, just because you want to find your ancestors.

Therefore I would recommend you to take a look at the german community www.ahnenforschung.org , which has also a small english community inside. There you can also find a 'first steps'-documentation on how to begin with the research in germany.
The first step will be to contact the local authority in Bad Tennstedt to ask for you GGG-father.

http://www.badtennstedt.de/rathaus_u.html :
Sachgebiet III Standesamt
Frau Muschketat Tel.: 036041/ 380-18
vgbadtennstedt-muschketat@web.de

Hope this helps and see you on ahnenforschung.org

Best Regards
Sascha

[Siegler]

Ups, I should have read it all completely.

Depending on what kind of informations you have on the birth of your GG father, perhaps you can find in the entries of the 'standesamt' or in the church book records an information at the border of the original documents. Sometimes the priest has noted some additional informations there about the father...

[V. Wiegand]

Hi Michael,

if your intereseted in: our crest means in german "Des Herren Wort sei dir Richtgesetz"
I can't translate it that good and I guess google also cant but I think its something like "believe in god's words" maybe someone else can translate it better?!?